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Tommy Blanchard's avatar

Thanks for this article! This is really good, I think you've significantly raised the bar for hard determinist takes on Substack.

Overall, to be clear, we agree more than we disagree. Most importantly, we both reject the spooky libertarian kind of free will that breaks the laws of physics. To some extent we're probably splitting hairs on things like what language to use around moral actions and judgments, and just choosing to emphasize different things.

But to get to the heart of our disagreement: I'm not convinced by the manipulation argument. I've always found it (like many slippery-slope arguments) a bit like saying black and white can't be different because there are shades of grey in between. To me it seems clear that at each step along the argument we're putting in a few more pieces for standard moral responsibility.

But probably more importantly, I don't see how we can just put moral responsibility aside. Our Strawsonian reactive attitudes, values like justice, and even our need for forward-looking/consequentialist deterence and praise all need some concept of accountability. We need to separate intentional and unintentional actions, and fully capable adults who should be held accountable from children who should not. All of these things seem to cohere pretty well with a framework like reasons-responsiveness (or something close to it). Maybe the claim is that the manipulation argument should temper our responsive attitudes and the value we place on justice. Maybe it does for some people, that's an interesting empirical question. I doubt it's possible to completely eliminate them, but at this point we're just talking about speculations around human psychology. None of this changes our need to hold each other accountable to interact socially and cooperate in a larger society, and as long as there is that, we have moral responsibility.

Anyways, seriously, this was a great article, you summarized the hard determinist case and the consequences of it really well. Best article I've read on Substack on free will (excluding my own, of course 😉)

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Dante's avatar

Susan is morally responsible, it’s just that she didn’t do anything wrong. If instead her ex had demanded that she break into a maternity ward and throw all the newborns out of a window, she would be blameworthy. Coercion can affect her place on the praise/blame spectrum, but not remove her from it entirely.

As for the manipulation argument, I agree that people are not responsible for many aspects of their characters, in the sense that there is no set of freely willed actions they could’ve reasonably taken to change those aspects.

However, I think responsibility has something to do with the link between character and actions. For an action to be ‘yours’, it has to be a product of your character. So if you took some drug that made you a violent psychopath for a day, you wouldn’t really be responsible. If it persisted, though, I’d start to be comfortable saying that this is just who ‘you’ are now, and therefore you are responsible.

I know this notion of character is pretty vague. While people do have moral responsibility, I think it can only be as real as the persistent ‘person’ is real. So I agree with the incompatibilist discomfort with retribution.

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